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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Griffin |
Posted - 15 Aug 2019 : 20:49:15
Brief for Package 1627
Falcon1 is a 2-ship rescue, Gamble 1 is a 4-ship SEAD and Hawkeye1 is a 4-ship Escort flight.
Mission - Two enemy military scientists have defected and we need to get in and pick them up. Unfortunately they are deep in enemy territory.
With the aid of a SEAD and Escort Falcon is to land, stop open the canopy to let the scientists in then get out of there.
Friendlies - AWACs on station south of AO.
Threats - SA-3 and an SA-2s active. MiG-21, MiG-23, MiG-29A and Su-27 can be expected around the area.
Mission Success is given for no aircraft losses and the scientists rescued
Partial Success is given for 1 x aircraft loss and one scientist rescued.
IDM will be hosted by Gamble1 with Hawkeye1 as backup host.
Timings
Flight Task TO TOT IDM VHF TACAN FL
Falcon1 Rescue 2012 2036 11-12 15 11/74 240
Gamble1 SEAD 2010 2025 21-24 16 16/79 280
Hawkeye ESCORT 2014 2035 31-34 17 21/84 250
Comms
Kimpo
ATIS - 126.350
U2 Ground - 236.700
U3 Tower - 240.900
U4 Departure/Arrival - 363.700
U6 Tactical Eyeball1 - 390.700
Alt (R103)
U10 Approach - 236.000
U11 Tower - 236.000
U12 Ground - 236.000
SPINS
Flight paths and weapons are free.
Results
Flight Leads in this Sunday's official mission, "Smash and Carry" are requested to post a debrief of their flight's actions, including any lessons learned or that should be learned by others.
Please put the following information at the top of your post:
Flight Role: (SEAD, ESCORT, STRIKE, Etc..)
Callsign11: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign12: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign13: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
Callsign14: "Pilot's name" AA=X AG=X RTB,MIA/KIA,EJT
MS/PS/MF |
| 5 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Vosene |
Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 12:33:12
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?35847-4-34-IDM-principles-of-operation&highlight=Idm+package
While is isn’t an issue at the moment, when you have any more than 8 aircraft in a package, unless you are in the IDM host flight, there is no way to display all aircraft D/L positions for aircraft in your flight.
For example, a 3-flight, 12-ship package. The IDM host has his own flight in 11-14 and flight lead and element lead for the other two flights, so 21,23,31 and 33 in the remaining four IDM slots. Wingmen in the other flights will see their flight/element leads because they are on the same D/L frequency but the Flight Leads won’t be able to see the position of their Wingmen because they aren’t listed in one of the host’s 8 D/L slots.
This might not be an issue, depending on the mission, but one way around it would be for the #2 or #4 in the other flights to host AA IDM on VHF and for Flight Leads to switch between package D/L on UHF and Flight D/L on VHF as required.
It also becomes more important in deciding who hosts. The Escort may well have host priority because they need to know where each aircraft in their flight is and what targets they have locked up, more so than the Strike Flight.
I think we need to put something on the Sqn SOPs about this.
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| Vosene |
Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 12:10:54
Bit more on IDM: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=37326&d=1556578976
Need to ensure IDM set to UHF for AA, VHF for A2G. This is default and 185th SOP.
Interestingly something I hadn’t realized before. Every aircraft must have the IDM host listed in their D/L page otherwise the host request is rejected. By default off of your own flight are listed but, if someone in another flight is hosting, you’ll only get D/L to/from the host if you have them listed in one of your 8 D/L slots.
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| Vosene |
Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 10:33:32
Picking up on the point about IDM and TCN.
TCN really needs to be sorted on the ground before take-off. Hawkeye13 called that he had issues with Yardstick prior to departure, these should have been resolved prior to take-off.
For dolly, given the issues in the air and that we weren’t given a specific TOT, it might have been better to orbit while these were sorted rather than pressing on.
After reviewing the stream and tape, it was clear both of these issues added to the Comms overload and limited SA, in-particular issues between 3 and 4 and, to some extent, issues between the two elements operating effectively as a team.
Good learning points for future missions that all Leads should note.
When troubleshooting:
TCN - the obvious, check channels are correct (73 apart), on Y or X and set to A/A TCN. If that doesn’t solve it try rolling all TCN channels by +1, that usually solves it. If someone has to join late or rejoin in pit then TCN will almost always have to be rolled +1 channel by everyone in that flight.
IDM - Host on Continuous, clients on Demand. Host has initiated IDM round. Setup correct in D/L DED page including adding other flights as required. For 4.34 everyone must be on the same UHF frequency. If one person isn’t on IDM but is on correct UHF channel then check on DMD, get host to reinitiate, ensure they have the correct frequency on their UHF channel preset and lastly try getting someone else to host IDM. Remember when switching IDM host, old host needs to set DMD, new host set Continuous and the new host needs to initiate a new IDM round.
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| Noodle |
Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 09:39:11
Flight Role: Escort
Hawkeye11: "Noodle" AA=5 AG=0 EJT
Hawkeye12: "Echion" AA=1 AG=0 EJT
Hawkeye13: "Griffin" AA=1 AG=0 EJT
Hawkeye14: "Sabre" AA=0 AG=0 KIA
MF
Plan
Provide escort for Falcon1, clear out SA-2s north and south of target, ensure target area
is cleared of bandits and escort Falcon1 home.
#1 and #2 to focus on AA; #3 and #4 to get rid of 2x SA-2 at PPT63 and 64.
Execution
Hawkeye1 engaged a pair of Mig-29A shortly after TO followed by another one.
Both were taken care of.
There was significant enemy AA activity with pop-ups from SA-3 area, trying to flank us.
Once we proceeded to target area #1 trespassed southern SA-2 to get it to light up
for #3 to engage. It wasn't sure at this point if #4 could get his weapons on target so we
were pretty much down to 2x HARMS.
Having no HTS, to fire HARMs in POS mode over PPT63/64 was recommended.
That's when things got a bit out of hands...
#1 and #2 were engaged on both flanks, having #3 covering and Falcon11 calling on UHF for
clearance to land and pick up the scientist.
#1 was bingo slammers and fuel, not having heard the confirmation from Falcon11 that
SA-2 south of target was down, it was advised that Hawkeye1 was now egressing and Falcon11 could
commit to land and pick up at his own risk, no more efficient AA cover could be provided either.
While egressing #3 called for delouse of a Su-27.
#1 engaged that Su-27 with sidewinder and confirmed splash.
Meanwhile #2 was also engaged by another Su-27, that Falcon11 was able to shoot down.
A flight of Su-25 was picked up east of egress route, not to be engaged. Then another
flight of Su-25, trespassing our Patriot, which was mistaken for Mig-23s.
After looking at the tape, that flight should not have been engaged.
Following this engagement 2 aircrafts were lost (#1 had to eject due to flameout, #3 got
hit by debris of Su-25 being shot down). Only #3 proceeded to homeplate but had to
eject too on landing.
Thanks Griffin, it was an exciting mission, even though SA wasn't the best. Comms were overloaded on VHF due to TCN and IDM issues.
I think this mission needed a couple more pilots, a dedicated SEAD flight would've been nice.
Link to stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/469042327
Please check ATO for this week's flying.
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| Vosene |
Posted - 19 Aug 2019 : 07:22:44
Flight Role: Rescue
Falcon11 ”Vosene” AA=0 AG=1 RTB
Falcon12 AI
MF due to the loss of 3x human pilots.
Plan
Added HARMS due to lack of dedicated SEAD flight. Mission was flown with 4xpilots in Hawkeye1 Escort/SEAD and 1x pilot in Falcon1 Rescue.
Hawkeye1 to engage SA-2 right of track on ingress and then SA-2 just South of target as required. Land on R34 at target turn around and take-off from R16 after picking up scientist.
Egress back home flanked by Escort.
Execution
Took off just behind Hawkeye1. Due to limited fuel in D variant, fuel conservation because a key criteria right from take-off due to having some 3,000lbs less than the rest of the package and no tanker.
Very soon after take-off Hawkeye1 were engaged with a 2-ship MiG-29A. Falcon1 moved to East to avoid and Falcon11 successfully destroyed Eastern SA-2 Fan Song with 1x HARM shot and neutralized the SA-2.
After Hawkeye1 had destroyed the 2xMiG-29A they proceeded North and were quickly engaged by a second pair of MiG-29A. They also destroyed these while Hawkeye11 stayed clear to the South.
Moving into target area SA-2 to South of runway was still up. Falcon11 and Falcon12 both engaged with HARM and Falcon12 hit the Fan-Song. #1 instructed #2 to RTB but it didn’t so was utilized later in the mission.
Over the target, Hawkeye11 were engaging another group and Falcon11 was unable to get confirmation that it was safe to land. Reviewing the stream, Hawkeye11 did respond to Falcon11 that he could land but Falcon11 never received this message. Assumed that the call was made on VHF not UHF as Falcon11 had to switch VHF channel to communication with AI Wingman. Falcon11 continued at risk and then got SA from an Su-27 spike at 3 o’clock. Asking Hawkeye1 to stay between airfield and bandit group Falcon11 landed.
At this time Hawkeye1 were partly out of Slammers and bingo.
Landing was tricky due to no airfield lights on night mission but was accomplished as fragged. Opened canopy, scientist got in and then took off.
Stayed low-level as 2x Su-27 were in area. Falcon12 destroyed 1x Su-27 on tail of Hawkeye12 while Falcon11 went to delouse Hawkeye11 who was engaged with the other Su-27. #1 fired 1x Slammer but Hawkeye11 destroyed bandit with a heater. Falcon12 warned of a possible Maddog but Slammer continued to track downed MiG before it self-destructed. Coordination could have been better here but situation was very fluid and busy.
By this time group of MiG-23 were inbound from the West so #1 fired a long-range Slammer to keep the group cold. It missed as expected. #1 sent #2 to intercept. This kept them away for long enough for package to egress and they were no longer a factor. In the process #2 AI was shot down and deserves a medal!
Approaching home plate Hawkeye1 picked up a group of 4 contacts from the SW and committed. Falcon11 engaged 1x Su-25 with Slammer and damaged it. Hawkeye1 were calling out MiG-23s in the group but Falcon11 could only find Su-25. Tape replay showed it was just 4x Su-25 that could have been dealt with by Patriot coverage. Given low fuel state it may have been better not to engage and just land.
Falcon11 did a high downwind and landed on R34R to bring the scientist safely home.
Overall a tough but enjoyable mission, that was made even tougher given the limited number of human pilots available on the night.
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| 185th VFS |
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